tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3579003483038593135.post915158542429315804..comments2023-05-13T11:01:55.918-04:00Comments on frost and clouds: Just a little crankyJoshua Gutoffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17731207066330434709noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3579003483038593135.post-41217629790355772122008-12-04T12:17:00.000-05:002008-12-04T12:17:00.000-05:00This is an incredibly interesting post, one which-...This is an incredibly interesting post, one which- pun unavoidable- struck a real chord with me. <BR/><BR/>I am a fairly new davenner and very much still a student, so my response should be taken with a grain of (kosher) salt.<BR/><BR/>Having been to said Famous Synagogue, I admit to enjoying the music. Not all of it was joyful, some of it was down right sorrowful. And when I wasn't exactly sure where we were in the service, the music allowed me to stay present when I didn't know precisely what page we were on in the siddur.<BR/><BR/>But more than entertainment value, it helped me feel a part of community. It allowed me to participate. <BR/><BR/>I suppose I am writing from the perspective of someone who is still discovering what she wants from prayer, but I think music is a powerful uniter and tool, at least, for learners.<BR/><BR/>The first prayer I was able to commit to memory easily was the sh'ma, after all. No doubt because it has a tune.<BR/><BR/>This is a longer discussion, but that's my initial 2 cents and has definitely has got me thinking about what it is I want out of prayer..<BR/><BR/>So thanks,F&C, I continue to love the blog.elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05152301871586531164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3579003483038593135.post-82085182375242918422008-11-30T09:36:00.000-05:002008-11-30T09:36:00.000-05:00Josh,um, I mean, dear blog entry:We all come to pr...Josh,<BR/>um, I mean, dear blog entry:<BR/>We all come to prayer from a less-than-totally informed place; and often, that place is a cranky place. And yet, we pray. Together.<BR/>Thanks for using this blog entry to open up your subjective feelings about prayer for discussion. I guess that means that I can throw mine in as well. I hesitate, because not all subjective opinions are blog-worthy. Here's mine. and I apologize in advance for it not being scholarly.<BR/><BR/>What role does the notion of aesthetics play in your prayer "world"? <BR/>If you're read Wittgenstein's "Tractatus" in college, like I did, you'll probably remember that really cool part in the mystical/numbered statements in the middle where he proclaims:<BR/>"Ethics and Aesthetics are one and the same."<BR/><BR/>As an art critic, and, well, a kind of artist, I've always that there's a lot of truth in that. I bring that outlook to my davvening, to my prayerful-ness, to my ability--or not--tolerate/get into/ what's happening in shul.<BR/>I should clarify and say that I don't mean aesthetics in the sense of beautiful singing, instruments, etc. I genuinely get turned off by this stuff often, to tell you the truth. Instead, I'd rather examine the fact that notions like getting turned "on" or "off" even enter the discussion. My religious experience and ability to pray "well" if there is such a thing is sort of based on a comfort level. And I'd call that comfort aesthetics. I didn't get too turned off to pray. I felt what I think of as spiritual.<BR/>The aesthetics of the cranky, the "informed," the studious are often just the opposite of happy smiling people holding hands (and singing songs). No?<BR/><BR/>thanks for writing so well and thoughtfully on this.<BR/>Now, watch out as the responses fly!<BR/>SSarah Schmerlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617840956007574005noreply@blogger.com